The Secretary of the pan-Yoruba socio-political group, Afenifere, Bashorun Seinde Arogbofa, who is also Afenifere’s representative at the national conference, in this interview with OLUWOLE JOSIAH, speaks on the forthcoming conference and highlights the positions of the South-West on some national issues
Wow would you describe the appointment of retired Justice Idris Kutigi as Chairman of the National Conference?
With somebody like a judge at such a high level, who has been looking at cases, weighing them and coming to conclusions, one might not raise an eyebrow. The judiciary is one of the best professions from where the chairman of such a conference should come from. Having said that, the government that appointed him must have known who he is and I’m not aware of any public indictment on his person. I see him as a great Nigerian, who participated in a committee on ways to end the Boko Haram scourge. I think they did a good job given that they risked their lives in such a dangerous assignment. I don’t have much of a problem with the composition and character of the secretariat of the conference.
What are your expectations from the leadership of the conference?
We have to advise and warn them to be independent, because some people are already saying the President should have allowed delegates appoint their chief functionaries. From that point of view, they have to be very careful so that they don’t confirm the fears of critics. We in Afenifere had thought that the delegates should have been allowed to appoint their functionaries; but then, they have been appointed. We are bent on making the best use of this opportunity, because we started the call for a national conference a long time ago. No matter the weaknesses, we have to go on.
Balarabe Musa recently stated that nothing good will come out of the conference. How would you react to that?
Balarabe Musa is forthright, and says what he believes in without any colour. But sometimes, he doesn’t look at issues with great insight and depth as one would have expected of him. He is a great Nigerian. I like him because he speaks his mind. We cannot compare his stand on the conference to that of Bola Tinubu. Balarabe Musa’s criticisms can still be accommodated. Tinubu completely condemned the national conference, even though he was one of the earliest supporters of it. He has been too political and that is bad politics. You must be able to see what is good in your opponents. Right now, Tinubu appears to be isolated on this issue of national conference. His governors are back, even though they are coming in late. They have sent in their delegates. Not everybody has the same foresight like late Obafemi Awolowo, who would make a statement on an issue and you wouldn’t be able to fault it. One would have expected Balarabe, in spite of his criticisms, to come nearer and see how to contribute to it. He wanted a sovereign national conference, and because it is not sovereign, he thinks we should not expect a good result. Afenifere was at the forefront of the campaign for a sovereign national conference; Balarabe Musa came in, the late Anthony Enahoro, and a host of others. But when this matter came up, we tried to take a critical look at the issues. We feel it is good enough that we have been given the opportunity to talk. We do not agree with Balarabe Musa that, because it is not going to be a sovereign national conference, we should not go.
What about this issue of no-go areas, would that not affect the outcome?
Jonathan has proposed no-go-areas, but we said we will have to talk about anything that affects this country. Nigeria is already one. I don’t know what they mean by no-go-areas. We are going to discuss Nigeria. Even when we discuss, we will not always agree on all issues. We should be able to discuss everything, and anything about Nigeria. We are not going to discuss the division of Nigeria; we are going to discuss how Nigeria can be better united. We should be able to go tough on one another, but with the goal of achieving a better Nigeria. What Afenifere wants is to see that we improve on the situation of the country. We want to look at what has been responsible for the skewed federalism and try as much as possible to make sure we have true federal system in this country. And when we say ‘sovereign,’ we mean that whatever we agree upon at the conference is final; it should not be jettisoned.
Has Afenifere as a group, come up with suggestions to the government on how to arrest the Boko Haram scourge?
As a group, no, we have not really done any study or put something together to the President, but we have always told him that Boko Haram should not be handled with levity. It is a serious issue; it is now like guerilla warfare. Individually, some of us have written about this. We have to trace the root of the problem. Millions of children called almajiris are moving across the country without education and care. It is good that they are given Quranic education, but they need to be well-educated. Now, they are cheap instruments in the hands of terrorists. The leaders in the North have to be blamed for not giving them the right type of education. They did not cater for them. The Federal Government is making efforts to bring them into schools through the almajiri programme. What are the governments in the North doing with the funds given to them for education? That is the question we should be asking right now. What is happening now is unfortunate. Politicians and religious bigots have hijacked the whole thing. The President has taken the right step by asking Cameroon to cooperate in the fight against terrorism. We don’t want this to snowball into the South. We have to be very careful. The northern leaders must cooperate. I believe they know some of them (Boko Haram members).
Activities towards next year’s general elections are gearing up, what would be the criteria for Afenifere supporting any candidate?
The traditional thing is for the group to have a party where those who believe in the Afenifere philosophy can canvass for votes. In the past, it was very successful because of our principled nature. But politics has been bastardised; it is now ‘cash-and-carry.’ The military intervention allowed some civilians make so much money, which they are now using to win elections. It has been very difficult for Afenifere to have the kind of hold it has had in the past. Afenifere has its philosophy and manifesto, most of the other parties don’t. They believe in just going to win elections or buying votes. Afenifere is at the receiving end of this kind of situation because we have principled people, even though they may not be as many as we have in other political parties. They are still the conscience of this nation. We have a lot of our young men who want to contest and win elections. Some of them want to use other parties, like the Peoples Democratic Party, Labour Party, and others, to win elections and we decided that such persons could go to their states, if they don’t want to use the Social Democratic Party, which is now the official party of the Afenifere. We had a lot of problems trying to get the Independent National Electoral Commission to register the change of name. Those of our members, who are loyal to the Afenifere philosophy, who can win elections in their states with the PDP, or other parties, will get our support. They can go ahead, but they must abide by the Afenifere welfare policy.
At 75, it is safe to say you have had a long, fruitful career. What do you have ahead of you politically?
Some of us have been activists. I’m an optimist because I don’t want this country to collapse. I think we should not continue to patch things; we should improve, rather than allow things to break up. No country can contain us; it will be like a big river overrunning its banks. Cameroon can’t take us, not even Niger Republic. As for me, by March 24, I will be 75. At that age, I have to thank God. As a statesman, I would prefer to continue to play a role outside partisan politics. I should be less involved in partisan politics and look at things from a wider perspective.
It is believed that the amalgamation of Nigeria was to serve the purpose of a section of the country, particularly the North. Do you share that view?
No, I don’t share that view. The amalgamation was in the interest of all parts of the country. All we need to do is to restructure the country in an acceptable manner. Something went wrong because Nigerians were not brought into the picture. In the constitution, they just said ‘we.’ Who are ‘we?’ The people want to take part; the people want to make their own constitution.
How can the problems arising from the amalgamation and our constitution be rectified?
That is what the confab should do. The national conference offers an opportunity where you and I can talk. That was what Papa Adekunle Ajasin described as democracy: you talk, I talk. You say how you want the country to be run, I say how I want the country to be run; and we agree. The British did the right thing when we (North and South) were merged. But they should have allowed us to talk, but that is what we are going to do at the national conference.
The North has threatened to stage a walkout if the agenda of the conference does not favour them. What is your take on that?
I’ve heard that, but no one should entertain any fear. As we go to the negotiation table, do they expect all parties to be satisfied? I think we should exercise some maturity. You can’t have everything you want under any circumstance. Some state governments in the South-West said they had nothing to do with the confab, but now, they have returned. We should not have fear that all will not be well. All will be well, by the grace of God. I think people are afraid to talk; talk is better than fight. Walking out is not a solution to the problem of this country. Where are they walking out to? Are they walking out to Cameroon, walking out to Niger, or to Benin Republic; to destroy the country? We should be very careful. We can sit and talk. Their agenda cannot be the same with our agenda. There will be areas of differences.
You have said the conference is not about the breakup of Nigeria. How would delegates deal with a situation where some ethnic nationalities would demand self-determination?
I think we are over-blowing this issue of no-go areas. We are indirectly calling the attention of people to that aspect. We are going there to discuss the country and not to divide it. There is no need to divide Nigeria and I won’t take part in any bid to divide the country. I love this country. I want us to continue to exist. But checks and balances should be put in place. Those of us in the Southern Nigeria People’s Assembly, comprising the South-West, South-South and South-East, have sent a memo to Mr. President that if we have a two-thirds majority or 75 per cent majority, it should be used to see any proposal through. We have to get this straight: We are not going there to divide this country. No, I won’t be a part of it.
Afenifere has always called for true federalism. What structure of federalism would Afenifere be pushing for at the conference?
We want a system of true federalism made up of issues like regional governments. The regional government that will create the number of states it can manage and finance. States should be able to create the number of local governments they can manage and finance. We feel that if these are done, other things will automatically fall into place. The centre has so much money to waste; that is why billions of naira can be missing and nobody raises an eyebrow. Let the regions, the states and the local governments be developed. What the Federal Government will need will be agencies like defence, customs and excise, immigrations and foreign affairs; this rat race to steal, kill and destroy will reduce and unemployment will be drastically reduced.
There are assertions that the meetings of Yoruba leaders ahead of the conference did not carry along former President Olusegun Obasanjo and Gen. Oladipo Diya. Is it true?
I know fully well that Diya was carried along. As for Gen. Obasanjo, his people might have been there. Nobody has any axe to grind with Obasanjo. While he was there as President, he only concerned himself with personnel restructuring and we warned him then that personnel restructuring was not the problem of Nigeria. With personnel restructuring, a fool can take over in one day and send all those people packing. Has that not happened? We were asking for the Lagos-Ibadan road to be done. If he had done that at that time, would we be asking that it should be done now? There are so many things he refused to do. He was claiming to be a good Nigerian, neglecting his people, who were suffering. Their industries were not developed. Look at Olokola (free trade zone), what did he do to advance it?
How will you address the fears of some who believe that this conference might end up in a similar manner as Obasanjo’s third-term conference?
No, it can’t be the same again. Look at the way Jonathan started. He set up a committee to go round the country and advise him. Did Obasanjo do that? Did any of the former military dictators do that? We have been telling the President that we will not allow the restrictions on the issues be discussed. He has been cautious and trying to see reasons with us. The President is not a military man. You don’t expect a military man to evolve any democratic principle that will last. Aguiyi Ironsi did not know what he was saying then; he did not follow what he set up. Is it Sani Abacha who met with his own? We could not have expected Obasanjo to do better. Obasanjo is still a military man, Jonathan is not, and our optimism is that all will be well with the conference.
How will the delegates ensure that there is no repeat of what happened at the conference Obasanjo convened?
I have said it before, if Jonathan planned this to fail, it will fail him. It will be him that will fail, because the people who are defending him now will rise up to fight him. We have to get that clear. We must do this to save this country. Jonathan must use all the resources he has to ensure that this succeeds. He can use the National Assembly and other government machinery. If he fails, it is going to be trouble for this country. That is why we expect that the outcome of the conference should be implemented.
Do you think the recent federal appointment of some Yoruba individuals is Jonathan’s way of pacifying the region ahead of the 2015 elections?
As far back as early last year, it was the Yoruba Unity Forum, to which I belong, that first blew the whistle that none of the first 13 positions in Nigeria was occupied by people from the South-West. Again on December 20, the Afenifere, under the leadership of Pa Reuben Fasaranti, met with the President and the matter came up for discussion. He told us that those of us in the South-West threw away our own share, and that was the Speaker of the House of Representatives. We told him that it should not be the reason why we should not be properly represented in the government and he reasoned with us. In January, we had the appointment of the Chief of Naval Staff, Air Marshal Adesola Amosun. He is from Lagos; thereafter, the Chief of Staff to the President. We have a Central Bank Deputy Governor. No one should think that Jonathan did this because of any election. Such a person will not be a true Nigerian. The federal character system states that every state and zone should have a particular number of appointments relative to other zones. I think Mr. President has just started with us in the South-West. We need more. We need quality appointments. Every true Nigerian believes in the federal character philosophy.
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